How has your association with ZCF helped you?

What the f**k am I reading

Must be time for someone to name their preferred Starting XI.

zimbos_05 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:39 am

I can be for something and also understand the opposing viewpoint.

Certainly agree here. Explanation is not always = justification.

But you have to consider phrase-ology to avoid confusion or ambiguity. Using the words "so and so has a point" suggests justification and validation of a set of beliefs. A more precise phrase would be "so and so says" or "so and so believes".

For example, saying "Hitler had a point when he talked about how the Jews had too much power in Germany/Europe" is suggesting a validation of that anti-semitic belief. A matter-of-fact way to state that is, "Hitler had a grievance that Jews wielded too much power". That neither distorts facts, nor does it validate or invalidate Nazi views.

Kriterion_BD wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:07 pm

zimbos_05 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:39 am

I can be for something and also understand the opposing viewpoint.

Certainly agree here. Explanation is not always = justification.

But you have to consider phrase-ology to avoid confusion or ambiguity. Using the words "so and so has a point" suggests justification and validation of a set of beliefs. A more precise phrase would be "so and so says" or "so and so believes".

For example, saying "Hitler had a point when he talked about how the Jews had too much power in Germany/Europe" is suggesting a validation of that anti-semitic belief. A matter-of-fact way to state that is, "Hitler had a grievance that Jews wielded too much power". That neither distorts facts, nor does it validate or invalidate Nazi views.

But There was a problem with Jews in Germany that had to be addressed somehow. Not saying (hopefully obviously) that a genocide was the answer, but there was a clear Jewish led program that was choking the economy of Germany, and it was a considered, pointed strategy to drain the nations finances. Something had to be done. I just wish it was more diplomatic.

Kriterion_BD wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:34 am

ZIMDOGGY wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:12 pm

My genuine question to you Kriterion,

Would you be this accepting if this stuff was happening to Bangladesh only instead?

Genuine Q.

Nice deflection, but to humor you, I'll bite.

Bangladesh has many far greater concerns than one single instance of potential child abuse. I will even go ahead and name some of them for you:

1) Climate change. As the sea levels rise gradually, much of Bangladesh will be underwater for much of the year, rendering life impossible. Other parts of Bangladesh will find human habitation greatly diminished. Bangladesh is is 1/6th the size of Texas, but has 6 times the population. Doing the math, this means big trouble.

2) Water. Bangladesh has an immensely strained potable water supply. Much of the water has dangerous levels of arsenic in it.

3) Liveablity. Dhaka, the capital city routinely ranks as amongst the worst or least livable cities one the planet. Even worse than Harare, to my knowledge.

4) Crime and violent crime.

5) Rohingya refugees. Bangladesh now houses more than 1 million Burmese Muslim refugees who fled ethnic cleansing and genocide at the hands of majority Buddhist population. For a poor country like Bangladesh this is an immense burden and a strain. This will pose all sorts of problems in the coming years. Additional refugees may flee in the coming years from Burma or India.

Notice how LGBTQ or transgender does not feature anywhere on this list. If two gay guys want to marry, how does that affect any straight person in Bangladesh? Whether they marry or not, they are still going to be f***ing, so whats the big deal?

Just for the record, I'm not pro-gay marriage. I'm just not anti...its no business of mine. The only conceivable way it might be my business is if it was a public health issue in any way.

I know Bangladesh is a dump with severe issues that you have outlined, and I’m not deflecting.

My point was to your point that I was over dramatising an issue.

However the gay issue is something that is happening all over the west + Europe. It’s leading to distortion of the pillars of our society that’s going to have consequences. Some mild, some not so much.

My Bangladesh question was genuine and it was on a deeper level to the point above^

I wanted your honest thoughts of how you would feel if your spiritual, Islamic homeland that you hold dear to your identity went down a path that was taken over culturally by LGBT alphabet stuff.

It is my belief that you are able to disassociate yourself from it in the comfort that this hasn’t taken over the Islamic world and as a member you can lol/brush it off with a sense of distance. This is my instinct and I’m sorry if I’m wrong. It is not a criticism. I get it. I’m envious.

But understand please that people on the other side of the fence don’t have that place of serenity to withdraw too in the same way, it’s Diminishing.

I know that Bdesh has bigger problems but the west has issues too, and how would you feel about having Bangladesh media draw focus on gay issues and ignore the sea level issue and such? That’s what a lot of people in the west are sick of. We have issues and the attention is all gay s**t.

ZIMDOGGY wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:30 pm

I know Bangladesh is a dump with severe issues that you have outlined, and I’m not deflecting.

My point was to your point that I was over dramatising an issue.

However the gay issue is something that is happening all over the west + Europe. It’s leading to distortion of the pillars of our society that’s going to have consequences. Some mild, some not so much.

My Bangladesh question was genuine and it was on a deeper level to the point above^

I wanted your honest thoughts of how you would feel if your spiritual, Islamic homeland that you hold dear to your identity went down a path that was taken over culturally by LGBT alphabet stuff.

It is my belief that you are able to disassociate yourself from it in the comfort that this hasn’t taken over the Islamic world and as a member you can lol/brush it off with a sense of distance. This is my instinct and I’m sorry if I’m wrong. It is not a criticism. I get it. I’m envious.

But understand please that people on the other side of the fence don’t have that place of serenity to withdraw too in the same way, it’s Diminishing.

I know that Bdesh has bigger problems but the west has issues too, and how would you feel about having Bangladesh media draw focus on gay issues and ignore the sea level issue and such? That’s what a lot of people in the west are sick of. We have issues and the attention is all gay s**t.

Bangladesh is not a spiritual or Islamic homeland (for that matter, neither is Pakistan, nor even Saudi Arabia). The Quran says that entire universe belongs to God. Borders are just fake lines drawn on a map. There are gay people in Bangladesh and the deserve the same dignity and rights that anyone else does. Why should the secular government of Bangladesh discriminate against gays? Should it discriminate against Christians also? Most mosques, mandirs, and churches in Bangladesh will not recognize same-sex marriages. It is not the job of a secular government to impose religious law to oppress a minority group. Period.

European nations are secular. They are not Christian theocracies, and gays (and other minorities) are entitled to whatever rights are granted by the constitution to all other citizens/residents.

Alcohol is 1000x times more harmful to European society than members of the LGBTQ community. Gays will not give Europeans liver cancer. Gays will not cause drunk driving accidents that kill hundreds of Europeans each year. Gays will not cause alcoholic cardiomyopathy.

This has gotten so far off subject

Can't this be moved to a sub-forum

ZIMDOGGY wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:30 pm

It’s leading to distortion of the pillars of our society that’s going to have consequences. Some mild, some not so much.

This is patently false. There is no evidence of this, nor does it even make logical sense. One person's sexual orientation does not have any effect on other people.

What the f**k am I reading

sloandog wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:32 am

What the f**k am I reading

A thread with gays, Jews, war, child trannies, African politics, Islamic ideology and Rugby.

I mean what else could you expect from a Zimbabwean cricket forum ?

Must be time for someone to name their preferred Starting XI.

zimbos_05 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:54 am

Not really. Your latter phrasing suggests that you are just making a statement of how someone feels as opposed to the point they are making. A point can be valid, but it can be wrongly addressed. The latter would suggest that you don't actually understand, but are playing off the message as nonsense, regardless of how rational it may sound.

None of this makes any sense. "A point can be valid but wrongly addressed." What does that mean? Did you mean to say "A point can be valid, but wrongly stated?"

hhm can say that he feels "more black players deserve a chance" and I can say, "that is a valid point". He can then say, "in order to to do this, we must stop white players from playing the game, and remove all white people from any position of power". I can then disagree with this because his manner of addressing his point is incorrect. So, i can understand his initial point, I just don't necessarily agree with him in general nor would support him.

The HHM analogy is off the mark completely.

This is because you compared Zimdoggy's blatantly homophobic comment "LGBTQ rights promote pedophilia" with HHM's entirely plausible one of "black players deserve more chances". Let me say this again, the first comment is bigoted. The second comment is one that is reasonable. You cannot compare an apple to an orange.

A second reason why your comparison falls off the mark is in the type of comments you are comparing. Zimdoggy's comment is either true or false. It can be proven or disproven with data. HHM's comment is neither true nor false, its an opinion. It cannot be proven or disproven with data.

Kriterion_BD wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:48 am

zimbos_05 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:54 am

Not really. Your latter phrasing suggests that you are just making a statement of how someone feels as opposed to the point they are making. A point can be valid, but it can be wrongly addressed. The latter would suggest that you don't actually understand, but are playing off the message as nonsense, regardless of how rational it may sound.

None of this makes any sense. "A point can be valid but wrongly addressed." What does that mean? Did you mean to say "A point can be valid, but wrongly stated?"

hhm can say that he feels "more black players deserve a chance" and I can say, "that is a valid point". He can then say, "in order to to do this, we must stop white players from playing the game, and remove all white people from any position of power". I can then disagree with this because his manner of addressing his point is incorrect. So, i can understand his initial point, I just don't necessarily agree with him in general nor would support him.

The HHM analogy is off the mark completely.

This is because you compared Zimdoggy's blatantly homophobic comment "LGBTQ rights promote pedophilia" with HHM's entirely plausible one of "black players deserve more chances". Let me say this again, the first comment is bigoted. The second comment is one that is reasonable. You cannot compare an apple to an orange.

A second reason why your comparison falls off the mark is in the type of comments you are comparing. Zimdoggy's comment is either true or false. It can be proven or disproven with data. HHM's comment is neither true nor false, its an opinion. It cannot be proven or disproven with data.

So if it can be proven with data, I’ve won this argument because I showed actual examples?

*cue Rocky Music*

Although I don’t even agree with that because it’s still unchartered territory, and a lot of it is predictions on what is to come based on a very real action of redefining what the terms are of marriage and it’s knock on effect. Adoption rules for one. Visa rules as another. Concrete examples.

Now Moey from Detroit can legally marry his childhood mate Aqib from Dhaka and bring him to the USA legally. Not hard to show a few photos of them innocently hugging and citing ‘our relationship was hush hush because of Muslim society and not many people know.

zimbos_05 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:09 pm

No, because I did not justify his comment about pedophilia. I justified his initial comment about it being a means that can lead to something else, I never specified the something else.

So are we now going to justify Hitler's initial grievance that Germany was hard done by world powers after WWI? Surely, you can see the slippery slope?

Also, HHMs comment could be proven by data. You would look at participating figures. Schools involved. Coach numbers. Grassroots levels.

You can't prove an opinion. "Black players need more chances" cannot be proven because its merely an opinion. More chances than what?

Gay rights lead to pedophilia can be proven to be false because Gays are no more or less likely than straights to be pedophiles, nor are most pedophiles gay.

ZIMDOGGY wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:11 am

So if it can be proven with data, I’ve won this argument because I showed actual examples?

*cue Rocky Music*

No because there are 1000s of examples of the Church that you've ignored.

This thread has convinced me that we should just have one catch-all thread for the entire forum.