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Tarisai Musakanda in T20Is

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ZCF OriginalVeteran

Opening post


sloandog wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:10 pm

How do you like our strategy? You think it’s coming along well?


Musakanda just lost it ..why..

PJ Moor get a chance he post 92 runs

Burl gets a chance he score 2 fifties
Eddiemuran
Legend

sloandog wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:53 am

It’s a real shame we never saw the best of Sibanda.

@ encore, would you agree he was one of Zimbabwe’s most naturally talented batsmen who didn’t have the mental strength to consistently succeed? For me he had the best technique in the country and probably still does, after Ervine.


For me "best technique" would have to include his defensive technique and for that I seem to recall too many plumb LBWs against straight balls.

But easily the most aesthetically pleasing batsman Zim has ever produced.
Veteran

sloandog wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:53 am
It’s a real shame we never saw the best of Sibanda.

@ encore, would you agree he was one of Zimbabwe’s most naturally talented batsmen who didn’t have the mental strength to consistently succeed? For me he had the best technique in the country and probably still does, after Ervine.

It's not a new topic that's for sure. Natural talent. That's a tough one.

Because I'm a Mat'land guy, and he's one of the batsmen that I got to see when still quite young and could do quite a bit, even when up against seniors in domestic at the time (eg AC, Andy, Grant etc), I'd have to go with Charles Coventry.

ZIM has developed a lot of orthodox bastmen who are glorious to watch. I think Matsi just shades all of them, followed by Dion Ebrahim. What makes Vusi Sibanda so attractive is that just as Elton could smash the very best bowlers in the world, Vusi could be dominant as well, but in a more classical fashion, not slogging. But Madondo, Matsi, Vusi, Hami and Ebrahim are 'trained' and technically correct so to speak, not so much natural. Regis. Tari the same and we saw a bit of that in Munyonga too. Still, you have to have the raw talent to be coachable, and one would have to say a Matsi had it, but a lot of the guys are coached products. Kasuza is probably the most naturally talented of the Black ZIM batsmen I've seen.

What I find strange is that while most cricket nations have got plenty textbook white batsmen, ZIM have only had Grant and Vermeulen as far as I can remember - that's worse than Bangladesh 😂 (I'm not sure about Welch, but Byrom and Ballance certainly aren't textbook). And I remarked the other day that if Mark could play off the backfoot, he would've been a 40+ avg Test & ODI batsman.

I think part of the reason is because the more naturally skillful guys turn to rugby and hockey I think, just like Sean Williams. Funny enough Sean is related to another one Mike McKillop. I think he played cricket. There's another guys I can't remember his name. It's been decades. I'll tell you once I recall.

I don't think Craig Ervine would feature in terms of technique, but he does have a lot of raw talent. Although quite some way behind Coventry, Kasuza and Sean in my book.

Going back to what you said, I'm still adamant that Vusi would have had more productivity if he batted lower. Not too much but he would have averaged 35+ in Tests and ODIs, more than Hami and Matsi. So I don't think it's necessarily lack of mental strength. It's actually mental strength. Vusi is arguably the only batsman who tried to develop his backfoot game. He was forced to open where he was contronted with fast guys bowling short at him, and he tried to adapt. Likewise, many wouldn't say Goodwin had lack of mental strength, but in all honesty he flopped for ZIM many times in key matches and moments. He fell cheaply. And that's partly because he tried to change his game too much. ZIM didn't have many fast guys, and rarely played matches then too. So Goodwin often found himself playing off the front footin domestic. But when ZIM had internationals, the adjustment became hard at first drop.

This is why natural talent is important. It's easier to make transitions. Recently, think AB, Michael Clarke and Rohit Sharma. You know both would have struggled opening in Tests, but eventually they would've gotten it right. I don't have the same confidence in Kohli and even Sachin opening in Tests.

So don't argue with me when I say Sean and Craig should have opened for ZIM, and someone responds yeah but Hami and Vusi had better techniques. You guys have it the wrong way round. Jayasuriya, Hayden, Sehwag, Gibbs, Cook, Elgar Kirsten, are all either dazzling or dull natural talent. None technically correctly. ;)
Veteran

foreignfield wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:51 am


sloandog wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:53 am

It’s a real shame we never saw the best of Sibanda.

@ encore, would you agree he was one of Zimbabwe’s most naturally talented batsmen who didn’t have the mental strength to consistently succeed? For me he had the best technique in the country and probably still does, after Ervine.


For me "best technique" would have to include his defensive technique and for that I seem to recall too many plumb LBWs against straight balls.

But easily the most aesthetically pleasing batsman Zim has ever produced.

Beat me to it, but I agree with that bold part on Craig.

Aesthetically pleasing I'm sticking to Vusi, Matsi and Ebrahim.
ZCF OriginalLegend

encore wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:21 am

What I find strange is that while most cricket nations have got plenty textbook white batsmen, ZIM have only had Grant and Vermeulen as far as I can remember

and someone responds yeah but Hami and Vusi


That first part could have something to do with the way demographics works. Other nations being majority white populations. You learn about it in geography. In saying that, you are being very unkind to Andy Flower and Neil Johnson. They were extremely sound. Andy had such good control as a batsman. Wasim Akram said his technique was perfect and nullified his bouncer. Made him bowl the ball where he wanted to so he could hit it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqZVAjr9y_8

The part about Hami and Vusi is because they are openers and wanted to open. Had nothing to do with technique. Hami did not have the best technique for an opener, but he preferred the role.

encore wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:21 am


sloandog wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:53 am
It’s a real shame we never saw the best of Sibanda.

@ encore, would you agree he was one of Zimbabwe’s most naturally talented batsmen who didn’t have the mental strength to consistently succeed? For me he had the best technique in the country and probably still does, after Ervine.

It's not a new topic that's for sure. Natural talent. That's a tough one.

Because I'm a Mat'land guy, and he's one of the batsmen that I got to see when still quite young and could do quite a bit, even when up against seniors in domestic at the time (eg AC, Andy, Grant etc), I'd have to go with Charles Coventry.

ZIM has developed a lot of orthodox bastmen who are glorious to watch. I think Matsi just shades all of them, followed by Dion Ebrahim. What makes Vusi Sibanda so attractive is that just as Elton could smash the very best bowlers in the world, Vusi could be dominant as well, but in a more classical fashion, not slogging. But Madondo, Matsi, Vusi, Hami and Ebrahim are 'trained' and technically correct so to speak, not so much natural. Regis. Tari the same and we saw a bit of that in Munyonga too. Still, you have to have the raw talent to be coachable, and one would have to say a Matsi had it, but a lot of the guys are coached products. Kasuza is probably the most naturally talented of the Black ZIM batsmen I've seen.

What I find strange is that while most cricket nations have got plenty textbook white batsmen, ZIM have only had Grant and Vermeulen as far as I can remember - that's worse than Bangladesh 😂 (I'm not sure about Welch, but Byrom and Ballance certainly aren't textbook). And I remarked the other day that if Mark could play off the backfoot, he would've been a 40+ avg Test & ODI batsman.

I think part of the reason is because the more naturally skillful guys turn to rugby and hockey I think, just like Sean Williams. Funny enough Sean is related to another one Mike McKillop. I think he played cricket. There's another guys I can't remember his name. It's been decades. I'll tell you once I recall.

I don't think Craig Ervine would feature in terms of technique, but he does have a lot of raw talent. Although quite some way behind Coventry, Kasuza and Sean in my book.

Going back to what you said, I'm still adamant that Vusi would have had more productivity if he batted lower. Not too much but he would have averaged 35+ in Tests and ODIs, more than Hami and Matsi. So I don't think it's necessarily lack of mental strength. It's actually mental strength. Vusi is arguably the only batsman who tried to develop his backfoot game. He was forced to open where he was contronted with fast guys bowling short at him, and he tried to adapt. Likewise, many wouldn't say Goodwin had lack of mental strength, but in all honesty he flopped for ZIM many times in key matches and moments. He fell cheaply. And that's partly because he tried to change his game too much. ZIM didn't have many fast guys, and rarely played matches then too. So Goodwin often found himself playing off the front footin domestic. But when ZIM had internationals, the adjustment became hard at first drop.

This is why natural talent is important. It's easier to make transitions. Recently, think AB, Michael Clarke and Rohit Sharma. You know both would have struggled opening in Tests, but eventually they would've gotten it right. I don't have the same confidence in Kohli and even Sachin opening in Tests.

So don't argue with me when I say Sean and Craig should have opened for ZIM, and someone responds yeah but Hami and Vusi had better techniques. You guys have it the wrong way round. Jayasuriya, Hayden, Sehwag, Gibbs, Cook, Elgar Kirsten, are all either dazzling or dull natural talent. None technically correctly. ;)


Two colleagues talking to each other.
ZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer
How do you like our strategy? You think it’s coming along well?
I’m actually thinking now that T20 cricket is the form of cricket that requires the most talent of the 3.

In tests, you just sit there and wait for the ball you want to hit. If it swings too much or not in your zone you leave it and I’d you want to hit the ball you can hit the ball.

In T20s, you need to battle balls that are swinging, dipping, changing paces, and you need to make things happen now! Can’t wait for your moment.

Test matches are like the ZC of the cricket world. Just latch onto others hard work, but T20 requires ingenuity, a creative mind and entrepreneurship.

If cricket was invented today we would only have T20s and players like Smith and Cook would be relegated to park cricket only.
ZCF Hall of Famer
Encore, I can’t keep correcting you, you’re making my batteries flat, battering me with bullshit, so to speak.

Possibly Vermeulen’s best shot was a back foot cover drive, he was renowned for it.

Admitting you’re a Battered Mealie explains a lot 😂
Veteran

Googly wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:23 pm

Encore, I can’t keep correcting you, you’re making my batteries flat, battering me with bullshit, so to speak.

Possibly Vermeulen’s best shot was a back foot cover drive, he was renowned for it.

Admitting you’re a Battered Mealie explains a lot 😂

I couldn't agree with you more. He was a right-handed Allan Border or Adam Gilchrist in the flesh! :roll:

People who write player profiles do get it very wrong, especially about ZIM players.

Answer this, was Michael Clarke a back-foot player because he could hit a gorgeous back foot cover drive?
ZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer
Vermuelan was a back foot player, though... All his weight went onto his back right foot when playing shots and he had very little footwork.

Mark pro'd at our club, and in the LCL some years back. Lovely fella' (also strange) but his deficiencies were evidently on the front foot. Give him the opportunity to pull or cut and he crucified the ball.

Profile writers are there for a reason. Vermuelans profile was consulted by John Ward (fact) who knows more about Zimbabwean Cricket than me or you.

'Vermeulen was a back-foot player by inclination, particularly strong on the cut, pull and hook shots, although he was also a sweet timer of the ball through the covers.' Cricinfo, corroborated by John Ward and written by Miller.
Veteran
There is talk of an anchor in T20Is - a batsman that, while not capable of consistent big hitting, is capable of clearing the bounday and rotating the strike. And yet, Zimbabwe have the perfect candidate in Taisai Musakanda, who has not been used enough in T20Is.

He did incredibly well in the Africa T20 competition.

.

TariAfricaT20-1819.png
TariAfricaT20-1819.png (24.9 KiB) Viewed 499 times

.

He was also impressive in the few T20Is that he's played, which were exlcusively against top opposition and bowlers.

.

TariT20Is.png
TariT20Is.png (17.6 KiB) Viewed 499 times

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To make matters worse, Tari topped the Tri-Nations tournament ZIM hosted in place of the Domestic Competition in June last year, which involved Kenya, Zimbabwe Chairman's XI and Zimbabwe Select XI.

.

ZIMINT_KEN_T20.png
ZIMINT_KEN_T20.png (41.05 KiB) Viewed 499 times

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I deal in facts, and these are facts. Pictures in this case, because words are sadly proving to be a challenge for some, and minus links because any presence of filters constitutes an argument for the desperate who are clutching at straws.

These are the players to focus on.

T20Is: Taylor, Zhuwao, Kasuza, Musakanda, Elton, Sauramba(wk), Chisoro, Mavuta, Mumba, Chatara, Wellington

(RESERVES: Chari, Kamunhukamwe, Murray(wk), Magarira, Ngarava, Roche, Jongwe). Wait and see on Munyonga and Mashinge. Taylor, Zhuwao, Elton, Chisoro and Chatara will need replacing sooner rather than later, and there's enough in reserve to ensure a smooth transition.

Surely therefore, it should be considered criminal to exclude him from the T20I XI. We're not even talking about the squad, but straight into the XI. It would be crazy to say he was dropped because he failed against South Africa in South Africa. Very few succeed on our pitches. Even then, not even QdK got on top of ZIM bowlers, and none of our batsmen apart from maybe Faf, scored a decent amount of key runs at 150+SR.
ZCF Hall of Famer
Yes get him in the team.

One of the few young talents we have, it's strange that he is on the outer for some reason.
Sorry Am I the only one who’s noticed he’s failed in pretty much every innings against good opposition ?
ZCF OriginalVeteran

chesterton wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:22 pm

Sorry Am I the only one who’s noticed he’s failed in pretty much every innings against good opposition ?


A jump up too far. Should have played the Singapore series
ZCF OriginalLegend
He should be in the Zim team. Not at the expense of Ervine, Williams or Moor, but he should be.
Veteran

zimbos_05 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:10 am
He should be in the Zim team. Not at the expense of Ervine, Williams or Moor, but he should be.

A ZIM fan who still thinks you can win anything with a T20 XI that has all 3 of Moor, Craig and Williams in it 😂 . Let me guess, BT is your automatic in T20Is, now you agree Tari should be in it, so complete your XI:
ZCF OriginalLegend

encore wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:31 am

A ZIM fan who still thinks you can win anything with a T20 XI that has all 3 of Moor, Craig and Williams in it 😂 . Let me guess, BT is your automatic in T20Is, now you agree Tari should be in it, so complete your XI:


Look, a "zim fan" who can't see past race.

I specifically chose my words so that they did not include "T20" in them, because I knew you would pounce on my statement, and I would pick PJ, Williams and Ervine as starters in certain formats, and keep them around the T20 setup if not playing. Craig is not a T20 player, but he is better than most we have. I don't get to watch the domestic T20 as often as I would like, so often, I base off figures. Tari should be in the side especially based off of his T20 domestic stats. They outshine Elton by a country mile. So if we are picking on form and not skin colour, then you would have Tari instead of Elton, and Craig/Williams at 4.

Speaking of figures. In domestic T20 Sauramba averages 10 after 17 games. Murray averages 45 after 5 innings. Zhuwao averages 20 and Ervine 27. You can do the math.

Also not really sure what you saw in Chari this series that he warrants a spot.
ZCF Hall of Famer
I think Tari must have upset somebody not to be in the reckoning at all, considering some of the guys who are being picked atm. You can't really say his numbers 'demand selection' but he is obviously one of the few talented young bats left in Zimbabwe.

As for his batting I've always thought he has a couple of glaring technical issues regarding his batting, the main issue is he hits the ball in the air too much which probably isn't as much of an issue in T20 cricket, the other issue I felt was he closes the bat face too much and tries to play to the on-side too often.

I noted that during the Africa T20 which Hhm mentioned above he looked much better and played much straighter and kept the ball on the ground in the early stages of his innings'. Unsurprisingly he was the dominate batsman of that tournament along with Ryan Murray, sadly he was overlooked for the ODI's in South Africa before making two ducks in the T20I's against the same opposition.

He's only 24 so still has plenty of time on his side, but you would have hoped he'd have more domestic hundreds to his name, at this stage he has one Logan Cup ton and no List A hundreds (he does have a 99*). Personally I don't have that high hopes for Tari unless he can fix those issues I mentioned, and going off what the experienced players careers the training and coaching just isn't there in Zimbabwe to help transform a batsman at this level, the same guys have been making the same mistakes for 15 years!!!

I've said it before and I stand by it, I can't see Tari ever being a reliable International batter, I feel he'll average around 25 in ODIs with the odd brilliant innings which will leave us begging for more, much like your Vusi's, Elton's etc

As for his best position to bat, he's mainly batted at 3 or 4 but personally I think he'd better off at 6 or 7 at this point in time where he can come in and accelerate the innings at the end.
ZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer
It’s a real shame we never saw the best of Sibanda.

@ encore, would you agree he was one of Zimbabwe’s most naturally talented batsmen who didn’t have the mental strength to consistently succeed? For me he had the best technique in the country and probably still does, after Ervine.
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