If you follow football you might have heard or seen the once mighty Barcelona being crushed by the Germans. Why I am bringing this up is that Barcelona have a very similar problem to ours. You have a core group of players who are well over 30 and despite being probably the best players they have on paper they have lost that winning mentality with 3 successive collapses in a row.
ZC has a similar problem of a core group of players well over 30 who are the best players we have but will never take us anywhere because they have suffered crushing defeats for close to a decade. That loss to the UAE is the equivalent of the 8-2 loss Barcelona suffered last week. There is no recovery from that. If you actually look at the way BT doesn’t seem to care anymore or the dismal performances in Europe last year you will see a pattern. The mentality is gone.
That brings me back to my question. We probably won’t play any cricket until the end of the first quarter next year. Most of the core guys will be turning 35 by then. Could this not be the perfect time to start over? What else could they offer us that we haven’t seen already?
Time and time again we see youngsters come in with that energy we miss then they lose it after being stuck with these guys. I will always bring the example of Musakanda coming in and smashing the Sri Lankans all over the place only for Raza to tell him to calm down and then he knicked the next ball trying to run a single down to 3rd man.
I will put it this way, if we just want to survive we can stick with these guys but if we want to ever build a winning team this might be the perfect time to start over. You have to ask yourself. Do the likes of BT and Ervine see themselves playing in the next World Cup? If not then will they qualifiers mean anything to them?
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Is this not the perfect time to start over?
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It'll come down to fitness and mindset.
It SHOUlDNT be a problem, but you know how we are like. I trust Craig and Raza but don't trust BT as much to stay fit.
I can't help but remember when Hamilton Masakadza got fat and at 35 completely lost it.
35 is usually the magic number where your body starts to naturally deteriorate in cricketing terms. Can easily be overcompensated with fitness for 5 years, but that's when jigsaws clock starts to tick.
It SHOUlDNT be a problem, but you know how we are like. I trust Craig and Raza but don't trust BT as much to stay fit.
I can't help but remember when Hamilton Masakadza got fat and at 35 completely lost it.
35 is usually the magic number where your body starts to naturally deteriorate in cricketing terms. Can easily be overcompensated with fitness for 5 years, but that's when jigsaws clock starts to tick.
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It'll come down to fitness and mindset.
It SHOUlDNT be a problem, but you know how we are like. I trust Craig and Raza but don't trust BT as much to stay fit.
I can't help but remember when Hamilton Masakadza got fat and at 35 completely lost it.
35 is usually the magic number where your body starts to naturally deteriorate in cricketing terms. Can easily be overcompensated with fitness for 5 years, but that's when jigsaws clock starts to tick.
It SHOUlDNT be a problem, but you know how we are like. I trust Craig and Raza but don't trust BT as much to stay fit.
I can't help but remember when Hamilton Masakadza got fat and at 35 completely lost it.
35 is usually the magic number where your body starts to naturally deteriorate in cricketing terms. Can easily be overcompensated with fitness for 5 years, but that's when jigsaws clock starts to tick.
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Been away for a while but I like this thread very interesting indeed
Couple of good points being made regarding building the team around a core group and who will make up that core group. The most telling point is Eugene's in that nothing can be built until they start playing regular cricket, but that's a whole other thread.
IMO the side should be built around a core group of senior experienced players, not a young group of talented inexperienced players. Cricket is a funny sport in that you never ever see a young side do well, unlike in all the major football codes in where you will see teams with an average age of 22-23 win big titles. In cricket experience and 'miles under your belt' are key ingredients to any successful team, batsman and spin bowlers especially need lots of experience and usually don't hit their peak till their 30's. Fast bowlers are the exception where bowlers tend to lose speed as they get older, although most get smarter as well.
Having a side all over 30 isn't the end of the world in fact it should make your side very competitive, you just need to make sure your development programs and A tours are readying players for the step up.
For Zimbabwe the core playing group should be BT, Raz, Williams, Ervine, KJ & Chatara they are the six best players and the most experienced players available, the younger players around them will learn more off these guys than any coach could teach them. You can then fill the side with good young players around them such as Wes, Shumba, Myers, Burl, Tari, Kasuza, Mumba etc
As mentioned by a few others it's guys like Maruma, Chamu, Tiripano, Elton, Chari etc that are blocking the youngsters pathways, there's no point filling the side with Maruma or Chamu when Wes or Shumba are warming the bench.
Core Players
Brendan Taylor
Sean Williams
Sikander Raza
Craig Ervine
Tendai Chatara
Kyle Jarvis
Senior Players (that are still worth selecting)
Tendai Chisoro
Chris Mpofu
Regis Chakabva
Prince Masvaure
Neville Madziva
Young Players
Wes Madhevere
Milton Shumba
Dion Myers
Ryan Burl
Tari Musakanda
Kevin Kasuza
Carl Mumba
Charlton Tshuma
Kuda Macheka
William Mashinge
Luke Jongwe
Tinashe Kamunhuamwe
Brian Mudzinganyama
Ryan Murray
Brandon Mavuta
Richard Ngarava
Probably a few more I've missed here or there but you get the idea
Couple of good points being made regarding building the team around a core group and who will make up that core group. The most telling point is Eugene's in that nothing can be built until they start playing regular cricket, but that's a whole other thread.
IMO the side should be built around a core group of senior experienced players, not a young group of talented inexperienced players. Cricket is a funny sport in that you never ever see a young side do well, unlike in all the major football codes in where you will see teams with an average age of 22-23 win big titles. In cricket experience and 'miles under your belt' are key ingredients to any successful team, batsman and spin bowlers especially need lots of experience and usually don't hit their peak till their 30's. Fast bowlers are the exception where bowlers tend to lose speed as they get older, although most get smarter as well.
Having a side all over 30 isn't the end of the world in fact it should make your side very competitive, you just need to make sure your development programs and A tours are readying players for the step up.
For Zimbabwe the core playing group should be BT, Raz, Williams, Ervine, KJ & Chatara they are the six best players and the most experienced players available, the younger players around them will learn more off these guys than any coach could teach them. You can then fill the side with good young players around them such as Wes, Shumba, Myers, Burl, Tari, Kasuza, Mumba etc
As mentioned by a few others it's guys like Maruma, Chamu, Tiripano, Elton, Chari etc that are blocking the youngsters pathways, there's no point filling the side with Maruma or Chamu when Wes or Shumba are warming the bench.
Core Players
Brendan Taylor
Sean Williams
Sikander Raza
Craig Ervine
Tendai Chatara
Kyle Jarvis
Senior Players (that are still worth selecting)
Tendai Chisoro
Chris Mpofu
Regis Chakabva
Prince Masvaure
Neville Madziva
Young Players
Wes Madhevere
Milton Shumba
Dion Myers
Ryan Burl
Tari Musakanda
Kevin Kasuza
Carl Mumba
Charlton Tshuma
Kuda Macheka
William Mashinge
Luke Jongwe
Tinashe Kamunhuamwe
Brian Mudzinganyama
Ryan Murray
Brandon Mavuta
Richard Ngarava
Probably a few more I've missed here or there but you get the idea
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Been away for a while but I like this thread very interesting indeed
Couple of good points being made regarding building the team around a core group and who will make up that core group. The most telling point is Eugene's in that nothing can be built until they start playing regular cricket, but that's a whole other thread.
IMO the side should be built around a core group of senior experienced players, not a young group of talented inexperienced players. Cricket is a funny sport in that you never ever see a young side do well, unlike in all the major football codes in where you will see teams with an average age of 22-23 win big titles. In cricket experience and 'miles under your belt' are key ingredients to any successful team, batsman and spin bowlers especially need lots of experience and usually don't hit their peak till their 30's. Fast bowlers are the exception where bowlers tend to lose speed as they get older, although most get smarter as well.
Having a side all over 30 isn't the end of the world in fact it should make your side very competitive, you just need to make sure your development programs and A tours are readying players for the step up.
For Zimbabwe the core playing group should be BT, Raz, Williams, Ervine, KJ & Chatara they are the six best players and the most experienced players available, the younger players around them will learn more off these guys than any coach could teach them. You can then fill the side with good young players around them such as Wes, Shumba, Myers, Burl, Tari, Kasuza, Mumba etc
As mentioned by a few others it's guys like Maruma, Chamu, Tiripano, Elton, Chari etc that are blocking the youngsters pathways, there's no point filling the side with Maruma or Chamu when Wes or Shumba are warming the bench.
Core Players
Brendan Taylor
Sean Williams
Sikander Raza
Craig Ervine
Tendai Chatara
Kyle Jarvis
Senior Players (that are still worth selecting)
Tendai Chisoro
Chris Mpofu
Regis Chakabva
Prince Masvaure
Neville Madziva
Young Players
Wes Madhevere
Milton Shumba
Dion Myers
Ryan Burl
Tari Musakanda
Kevin Kasuza
Carl Mumba
Charlton Tshuma
Kuda Macheka
William Mashinge
Luke Jongwe
Tinashe Kamunhuamwe
Brian Mudzinganyama
Ryan Murray
Brandon Mavuta
Richard Ngarava
Probably a few more I've missed here or there but you get the idea
Couple of good points being made regarding building the team around a core group and who will make up that core group. The most telling point is Eugene's in that nothing can be built until they start playing regular cricket, but that's a whole other thread.
IMO the side should be built around a core group of senior experienced players, not a young group of talented inexperienced players. Cricket is a funny sport in that you never ever see a young side do well, unlike in all the major football codes in where you will see teams with an average age of 22-23 win big titles. In cricket experience and 'miles under your belt' are key ingredients to any successful team, batsman and spin bowlers especially need lots of experience and usually don't hit their peak till their 30's. Fast bowlers are the exception where bowlers tend to lose speed as they get older, although most get smarter as well.
Having a side all over 30 isn't the end of the world in fact it should make your side very competitive, you just need to make sure your development programs and A tours are readying players for the step up.
For Zimbabwe the core playing group should be BT, Raz, Williams, Ervine, KJ & Chatara they are the six best players and the most experienced players available, the younger players around them will learn more off these guys than any coach could teach them. You can then fill the side with good young players around them such as Wes, Shumba, Myers, Burl, Tari, Kasuza, Mumba etc
As mentioned by a few others it's guys like Maruma, Chamu, Tiripano, Elton, Chari etc that are blocking the youngsters pathways, there's no point filling the side with Maruma or Chamu when Wes or Shumba are warming the bench.
Core Players
Brendan Taylor
Sean Williams
Sikander Raza
Craig Ervine
Tendai Chatara
Kyle Jarvis
Senior Players (that are still worth selecting)
Tendai Chisoro
Chris Mpofu
Regis Chakabva
Prince Masvaure
Neville Madziva
Young Players
Wes Madhevere
Milton Shumba
Dion Myers
Ryan Burl
Tari Musakanda
Kevin Kasuza
Carl Mumba
Charlton Tshuma
Kuda Macheka
William Mashinge
Luke Jongwe
Tinashe Kamunhuamwe
Brian Mudzinganyama
Ryan Murray
Brandon Mavuta
Richard Ngarava
Probably a few more I've missed here or there but you get the idea
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Good to see most of the ZCF stalwarts from over the years posting in this thread. Essential to keeping this forum alive. Only CrimsonAvenger and zimfan are missing amongst the stalwarts (Maehara no longer posts). Have I forgotten anyone?
Bangladesh cricket fanatic, observer of all others.
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Good to see most of the ZCF stalwarts from over the years posting in this thread. Essential to keeping this forum alive. Only CrimsonAvenger and zimfan are missing amongst the stalwarts (Maehara no longer posts). Have I forgotten anyone?
Bangladesh cricket fanatic, observer of all others.
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The forum will roar back into life once some cricket starts again I'm sure!
My All-time Zimbabwe XI
Neil Johnson, Brendan Taylor, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), David Houghton, Sean Williams, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Paul Strang, Eddo Brandes, Blessing Muzarabani
Neil Johnson, Brendan Taylor, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), David Houghton, Sean Williams, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Paul Strang, Eddo Brandes, Blessing Muzarabani
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It better. It’s really a great place to discuss cricket.
Bangladesh cricket fanatic, observer of all others.
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The best days of the forum are well and truly gone in my opinion, but there’s still some good topics of conversation.
I reckon it peaked probably nearly a decade ago when we were returning to test cricket. The 2010-11 years were especially exciting with so many players returning
I reckon it peaked probably nearly a decade ago when we were returning to test cricket. The 2010-11 years were especially exciting with so many players returning
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sloandog wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 10:11 am
The best days of the forum are well and truly gone in my opinion, but there’s still some good topics of conversation.
I reckon it peaked probably nearly a decade ago when we were returning to test cricket. The 2010-11 years were especially exciting with so many players returning
Quality > quantity.
Even if a match thread only has 40-50 posts of good quality analysis it’s better than 400 posts of “bowled” or “MAXIMUM”. Not that that bit of color doesn’t have its place.
A dozen serious posters are better than a hundred little kids fangirling or whining.
Bangladesh cricket fanatic, observer of all others.
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This places business is directly correlated to cricket played
That said, ZC is kind of like 'children of men'.
Not many new fans are being captured by this team. All the fans here from what I can see were drawn to the Zim teams of old (pre 2004). Everyone's now in their thirties at least.
Some younger Zimbabweans and thirsty Indians that will follow anything fed ball related, but they are the mueddies with their contributions
That said, ZC is kind of like 'children of men'.
Not many new fans are being captured by this team. All the fans here from what I can see were drawn to the Zim teams of old (pre 2004). Everyone's now in their thirties at least.
Some younger Zimbabweans and thirsty Indians that will follow anything fed ball related, but they are the mueddies with their contributions
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Well series against PAK coming soon. Zim’s ODI Super League campaign begins.
Bangladesh cricket fanatic, observer of all others.
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Kriterion_BD wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 2:30 am
Well series against PAK coming soon. Zim’s ODI Super League campaign begins.
Is it confirmed :?
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I am thankful for this forum every time I even start to look at other cricket forums. They are mostly garbage with people flinging insults.
My All-time Zimbabwe XI
Neil Johnson, Brendan Taylor, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), David Houghton, Sean Williams, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Paul Strang, Eddo Brandes, Blessing Muzarabani
Neil Johnson, Brendan Taylor, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), David Houghton, Sean Williams, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Paul Strang, Eddo Brandes, Blessing Muzarabani
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eugene wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:32 pm
I am thankful for this forum every time I even start to look at other cricket forums. They are mostly garbage with people flinging insults.
This forum’s had a fair share of this
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I think every forum has it's fair share of flinging insults. This one has it more when there is something going on. When nothing is happening and there is silence, the usual disrupters disappear.
On a side note, congrats to Raza for winning the CPL. He didn't get much of a bat, but bowled really well in most of the games he played. Would have been good for him to play alongside the likes of Simmons, Pollard, Narine, and I'm sure he would have taken the opportunity to catch up with Andy who was coaching St Lucia who they beat in the final.
I know international cricket is a bit hard to come by. This would have been the perfect opportunity for ZC to create a player bubble, a youtube channel and put on some domestic T20 competition or something like that. Most other nations seem to be playing some form of cricket or doing something.
On a side side note, wonder if ICC will be as harsh on SA as they were on us.
On a side note, congrats to Raza for winning the CPL. He didn't get much of a bat, but bowled really well in most of the games he played. Would have been good for him to play alongside the likes of Simmons, Pollard, Narine, and I'm sure he would have taken the opportunity to catch up with Andy who was coaching St Lucia who they beat in the final.
I know international cricket is a bit hard to come by. This would have been the perfect opportunity for ZC to create a player bubble, a youtube channel and put on some domestic T20 competition or something like that. Most other nations seem to be playing some form of cricket or doing something.
On a side side note, wonder if ICC will be as harsh on SA as they were on us.
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The last I heard, cricket is one of the sports not permitted to be played in this country by the government under lockdown rules.
As for South Africa and the ICC, South Africa would be considered much more of a loss to world cricket than Zimbabwe, so I am expecting the law of expediency to come into effect, and the ICC to be a lot more cautious in suspending South Africa and inflicting on them the same appalling damage that they inflicted on Zimbabwe.
As for South Africa and the ICC, South Africa would be considered much more of a loss to world cricket than Zimbabwe, so I am expecting the law of expediency to come into effect, and the ICC to be a lot more cautious in suspending South Africa and inflicting on them the same appalling damage that they inflicted on Zimbabwe.
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Yea I believe the government have stepped in...How on earth is this any different from what happened last year!?
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CSA’s debt is also huge. The only difference is that they are a decent team. History really is repeating itself looking at what happened to us. If their performance’s dip they will be in trouble but for now they are safe. They have to fix it ASAP
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ICC would most likely be more lenient to CSA as they stand to lose more from them than if ZC went away. Knowing the ICC too, they will probably just not be consistent and apply the rules to suit them as they see fit.
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