If you follow football you might have heard or seen the once mighty Barcelona being crushed by the Germans. Why I am bringing this up is that Barcelona have a very similar problem to ours. You have a core group of players who are well over 30 and despite being probably the best players they have on paper they have lost that winning mentality with 3 successive collapses in a row.
ZC has a similar problem of a core group of players well over 30 who are the best players we have but will never take us anywhere because they have suffered crushing defeats for close to a decade. That loss to the UAE is the equivalent of the 8-2 loss Barcelona suffered last week. There is no recovery from that. If you actually look at the way BT doesn’t seem to care anymore or the dismal performances in Europe last year you will see a pattern. The mentality is gone.
That brings me back to my question. We probably won’t play any cricket until the end of the first quarter next year. Most of the core guys will be turning 35 by then. Could this not be the perfect time to start over? What else could they offer us that we haven’t seen already?
Time and time again we see youngsters come in with that energy we miss then they lose it after being stuck with these guys. I will always bring the example of Musakanda coming in and smashing the Sri Lankans all over the place only for Raza to tell him to calm down and then he knicked the next ball trying to run a single down to 3rd man.
I will put it this way, if we just want to survive we can stick with these guys but if we want to ever build a winning team this might be the perfect time to start over. You have to ask yourself. Do the likes of BT and Ervine see themselves playing in the next World Cup? If not then will they qualifiers mean anything to them?
Discussion
Is this not the perfect time to start over?
Discussion
ZCF OriginalLegend
Now I don’t like being critical without bringing solutions or an idea of what can be done. This would be my way of doing things. This is strictly for ODI cricket by the way. I feel like only the best players should play test cricket and age doesn’t matter in T20s
1-Every team has a core. It’s time we change that core. From BT Ervine Williams and Raza to Murray Blessing Burl Musakanda Wesley Jarvis And Chatara. This extra money can be used to bring back guys like Lake and Welch or even tempt somebody like Ben Curran or if we dream bigger Byrom. Offer them long term contracts . They might take it. Offer Myers a lucrative contract. He is a star. Muyeye would be the dream. Give it a try. His pathway to the England team will take him another 7 years maybe. Give him the chance for glory now.
2- Now Barcelona is not going to throw all the old players away over night and we shouldn’t either. I suggest we move BT to open and tell him he has a license to explode. Whenever he plays he doesn’t seem to have any patience at all these days. Let’s use that mentality for a better role. Also Raza and Williams can still play because they are all rounders. We need them to guide the new guys like Wesley and Shumba on how to play both roles perfectly. My sacrifice unfortunately would be Ervine (I know Zimbos will be on my case for this)
3- pick a young captain to lead the new generation. PJ was the ideal pick because he is a leader but his place in the team isn’t guaranteed. So that makes it difficult. Burl and Murray would be my next 2 picks but it will all depend on who settles first. Lake isn’t a bad option either.
4- if it means we must create a director of cricket role in Muzarabani for the likes of Chibhabha to disappear then so be it. Those guys must never play again. I know it’s wishful thinking but if Hami does ever get this message tell him that he should play politics and find administrative roles for his pals so that they stop wanting national contracts. Look at how Prosper disappeared after being given a role with the kids
1-Every team has a core. It’s time we change that core. From BT Ervine Williams and Raza to Murray Blessing Burl Musakanda Wesley Jarvis And Chatara. This extra money can be used to bring back guys like Lake and Welch or even tempt somebody like Ben Curran or if we dream bigger Byrom. Offer them long term contracts . They might take it. Offer Myers a lucrative contract. He is a star. Muyeye would be the dream. Give it a try. His pathway to the England team will take him another 7 years maybe. Give him the chance for glory now.
2- Now Barcelona is not going to throw all the old players away over night and we shouldn’t either. I suggest we move BT to open and tell him he has a license to explode. Whenever he plays he doesn’t seem to have any patience at all these days. Let’s use that mentality for a better role. Also Raza and Williams can still play because they are all rounders. We need them to guide the new guys like Wesley and Shumba on how to play both roles perfectly. My sacrifice unfortunately would be Ervine (I know Zimbos will be on my case for this)
3- pick a young captain to lead the new generation. PJ was the ideal pick because he is a leader but his place in the team isn’t guaranteed. So that makes it difficult. Burl and Murray would be my next 2 picks but it will all depend on who settles first. Lake isn’t a bad option either.
4- if it means we must create a director of cricket role in Muzarabani for the likes of Chibhabha to disappear then so be it. Those guys must never play again. I know it’s wishful thinking but if Hami does ever get this message tell him that he should play politics and find administrative roles for his pals so that they stop wanting national contracts. Look at how Prosper disappeared after being given a role with the kids
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So realistically for us I think we can get an ODI team like this within a few months
BT
Wesley
Musakanda
Williams
Murray(wk)
Burl
Raza
Myers/Shumba
Jarvis
Blessing
Chatara
The only time I would sacrifice BT is if we can use his wages to offer Muyeye and Byrom USD10000 each and they take it. Raza if Lake comes in and Williams if Myers takes off better than we expect. But this can all happen in 2 years
BT
Wesley
Musakanda
Williams
Murray(wk)
Burl
Raza
Myers/Shumba
Jarvis
Blessing
Chatara
The only time I would sacrifice BT is if we can use his wages to offer Muyeye and Byrom USD10000 each and they take it. Raza if Lake comes in and Williams if Myers takes off better than we expect. But this can all happen in 2 years
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Chase the youth and keep the core.
Very soon the next WC campaign will start again. All hands on deck till then.
Very soon the next WC campaign will start again. All hands on deck till then.
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The guys that need discarding are the maruma types. Multiple chances, early 30s and no success
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Maruma I cringe at every time I see his name in a Zim starting XI
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We can't really build anything until we play cricket regularly. How do you develop a test team when you play one or two tests per year? A player hits top form in ODIs and then has to wait six months to play again. We start over from scratch almost every series.
My All-time Zimbabwe XI
Neil Johnson, Brendan Taylor, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), David Houghton, Sean Williams, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Paul Strang, Eddo Brandes, Blessing Muzarabani
Neil Johnson, Brendan Taylor, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), David Houghton, Sean Williams, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Paul Strang, Eddo Brandes, Blessing Muzarabani
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I 100% agree that things need a freshen up and a change, but i just feel like the problem is not actually being addressed. Who is responsible for that freshen up? It is the current board and selectors, and they have shown that they are not interested in picking the best players for the role. They will pick Chamu, Maruma, Elton...and whoever else is their friends. We can't just overhaul the playing side without overhauling the structure. I guarantee that Zim could be a powerhouse side in less than 10 years if done right, but they insist on not actually doing the right thing or letting those who know the game take charge, so it's kind of a knocking heads situation.
So whilst i agree with you, i don't think we are addressing the actual issue that is preventing the shake up and the freshen up that we need. We don't have a clear team because there is no clear structure. With the uncertainty of playing for Zim, players would rather go to uni or wait 7 years to play for another country and that creates the issues of whether a Muyeye or Byrom for example would ever consider playing for Zim.
I did chuckle when you said I would be on your case for Ervine. It's not so much on your case as opposed to having a genuine discussion. i just find that you can't really justify him as the sacrifice when you consider that he has been our inform batsman for the best part of the last year of cricket that we played, possibly longer. It seems to me that you have always blamed him for the UAE loss and hence that's why you drop him.
So whilst i agree with you, i don't think we are addressing the actual issue that is preventing the shake up and the freshen up that we need. We don't have a clear team because there is no clear structure. With the uncertainty of playing for Zim, players would rather go to uni or wait 7 years to play for another country and that creates the issues of whether a Muyeye or Byrom for example would ever consider playing for Zim.
I did chuckle when you said I would be on your case for Ervine. It's not so much on your case as opposed to having a genuine discussion. i just find that you can't really justify him as the sacrifice when you consider that he has been our inform batsman for the best part of the last year of cricket that we played, possibly longer. It seems to me that you have always blamed him for the UAE loss and hence that's why you drop him.
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I'm close to a small national cricket setup and you really see the passion needed and hard work to run it well (it is run well) and until Zim have dedicated enthusiasts running it alongside business connections for the commercial side we won't get ahead.
You want the cricket community to be buzzing. I don't think it is, but it definitely can be, there's enough zimbos that love cricket for it to be vibrant, but you need the right people there.
Ervine should not be dropped. Are you mad? I'd give him a free ticket till he's 40. He is in form, fit and head and shoulders above the rest.
It's the Chamu and Eltons that need to go and be replaced by the under 19s and the expats. Basically I use the yardstick that if you haven't hit your straps over 30 you need to make way and just be first class depth. There is less than ten people above 30 that should be retained. That will be enough for experience.
You want the cricket community to be buzzing. I don't think it is, but it definitely can be, there's enough zimbos that love cricket for it to be vibrant, but you need the right people there.
Ervine should not be dropped. Are you mad? I'd give him a free ticket till he's 40. He is in form, fit and head and shoulders above the rest.
It's the Chamu and Eltons that need to go and be replaced by the under 19s and the expats. Basically I use the yardstick that if you haven't hit your straps over 30 you need to make way and just be first class depth. There is less than ten people above 30 that should be retained. That will be enough for experience.
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Ervine just scored a test century. Do not drop him.
The Third Innings
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Ignoring Tests for right now, how would the ODI side look keeping in mind the WCSL which has already started and which is essentially part 1 of a world cup qualifier.
Zimbabwe need to finish 12th or higher to ensure qualification to the next SL tournament. That means its a direct 3 horse race between ZIM, Ireland, and Netherlands. IMO, the youth have to blooded in now while the seniors like BT, Raza, Ervine, and Williams can still lead the way. I imagine 2023 will probably mark the ends of careers for the Big 4.
BT, Raza, Ervine, Williams, Jarvis, and Chatara form the undroppable core. That leaves 9 spots in the squad and 5 in any given XI. I think Madhevere has cemented one of those spots as a batting allrounder. I would also like to see Tari Musakanda open the batting, perhaps with Taylor with both players having a licence to go over the top of the fielding restrictions. Mire and Cephas could knock off 100 runs off the first 10 overs on their day...but they would only click once in 10 innnings against teams like Nepal or Scotland.
Obviously getting some expats back would be great. But perhaps securing younger players with talent who can play for 12-15 years is equally good. Guys like Murray and others.
I'm drawing some blanks for the remaining positions having not watched cricket in such a long time (thanks, COVID) but what does everyone think of this ODI top order:
1) Taylor
2) Musakanda
3) Ervine
4) Williams
5) Raza
6) Madhevere
Thats a solid start IMO.
Zimbabwe need to finish 12th or higher to ensure qualification to the next SL tournament. That means its a direct 3 horse race between ZIM, Ireland, and Netherlands. IMO, the youth have to blooded in now while the seniors like BT, Raza, Ervine, and Williams can still lead the way. I imagine 2023 will probably mark the ends of careers for the Big 4.
BT, Raza, Ervine, Williams, Jarvis, and Chatara form the undroppable core. That leaves 9 spots in the squad and 5 in any given XI. I think Madhevere has cemented one of those spots as a batting allrounder. I would also like to see Tari Musakanda open the batting, perhaps with Taylor with both players having a licence to go over the top of the fielding restrictions. Mire and Cephas could knock off 100 runs off the first 10 overs on their day...but they would only click once in 10 innnings against teams like Nepal or Scotland.
Obviously getting some expats back would be great. But perhaps securing younger players with talent who can play for 12-15 years is equally good. Guys like Murray and others.
I'm drawing some blanks for the remaining positions having not watched cricket in such a long time (thanks, COVID) but what does everyone think of this ODI top order:
1) Taylor
2) Musakanda
3) Ervine
4) Williams
5) Raza
6) Madhevere
Thats a solid start IMO.
Bangladesh cricket fanatic, observer of all others.
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Ignoring Tests for right now, how would the ODI side look keeping in mind the WCSL which has already started and which is essentially part 1 of a world cup qualifier.
Zimbabwe need to finish 12th or higher to ensure qualification to the next SL tournament. That means its a direct 3 horse race between ZIM, Ireland, and Netherlands. IMO, the youth have to blooded in now while the seniors like BT, Raza, Ervine, and Williams can still lead the way. I imagine 2023 will probably mark the ends of careers for the Big 4.
BT, Raza, Ervine, Williams, Jarvis, and Chatara form the undroppable core. That leaves 9 spots in the squad and 5 in any given XI. I think Madhevere has cemented one of those spots as a batting allrounder. I would also like to see Tari Musakanda open the batting, perhaps with Taylor with both players having a licence to go over the top of the fielding restrictions. Mire and Cephas could knock off 100 runs off the first 10 overs on their day...but they would only click once in 10 innnings against teams like Nepal or Scotland.
Obviously getting some expats back would be great. But perhaps securing younger players with talent who can play for 12-15 years is equally good. Guys like Murray and others.
I'm drawing some blanks for the remaining positions having not watched cricket in such a long time (thanks, COVID) but what does everyone think of this ODI top order:
1) Taylor
2) Musakanda
3) Ervine
4) Williams
5) Raza
6) Madhevere
Thats a solid start IMO.
Zimbabwe need to finish 12th or higher to ensure qualification to the next SL tournament. That means its a direct 3 horse race between ZIM, Ireland, and Netherlands. IMO, the youth have to blooded in now while the seniors like BT, Raza, Ervine, and Williams can still lead the way. I imagine 2023 will probably mark the ends of careers for the Big 4.
BT, Raza, Ervine, Williams, Jarvis, and Chatara form the undroppable core. That leaves 9 spots in the squad and 5 in any given XI. I think Madhevere has cemented one of those spots as a batting allrounder. I would also like to see Tari Musakanda open the batting, perhaps with Taylor with both players having a licence to go over the top of the fielding restrictions. Mire and Cephas could knock off 100 runs off the first 10 overs on their day...but they would only click once in 10 innnings against teams like Nepal or Scotland.
Obviously getting some expats back would be great. But perhaps securing younger players with talent who can play for 12-15 years is equally good. Guys like Murray and others.
I'm drawing some blanks for the remaining positions having not watched cricket in such a long time (thanks, COVID) but what does everyone think of this ODI top order:
1) Taylor
2) Musakanda
3) Ervine
4) Williams
5) Raza
6) Madhevere
Thats a solid start IMO.
Bangladesh cricket fanatic, observer of all others.
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Forgot that ZIM start their Super League campaign in just a couple of months during their tour of Pakistan.
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Forgot that ZIM start their Super League campaign in just a couple of months during their tour of Pakistan.
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TapsC2 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:59 am
So realistically for us I think we can get an ODI team like this within a few months
BT
Wesley
Musakanda
Williams
Murray(wk)
Burl
Raza
Myers/Shumba
Jarvis
Blessing
Chatara
The only time I would sacrifice BT is if we can use his wages to offer Muyeye and Byrom USD10000 each and they take it. Raza if Lake comes in and Williams if Myers takes off better than we expect. But this can all happen in 2 years
I am itching to put up a lineup
But people will say something...
Lol
Eddiemuran
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What is the peak age for a batsman? Craig is the oldest. He will be 38 by the time the next World Cup is played. BT , Raza and Williams will be 37. I guess Pakistan in October will tell us all we need to know. Can somebody in their mid 30s not play any cricket for half a year and still be ok?
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What is the peak age for a batsman? Craig is the oldest. He will be 38 by the time the next World Cup is played. BT , Raza and Williams will be 37. I guess Pakistan in October will tell us all we need to know. Can somebody in their mid 30s not play any cricket for half a year and still be ok?
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TapsC2 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:47 am
What is the peak age for a batsman? Craig is the oldest. He will be 38 by the time the next World Cup is played. BT , Raza and Williams will be 37. I guess Pakistan in October will tell us all we need to know. Can somebody in their mid 30s not play any cricket for half a year and still be ok?
Warner, Finch, Elgar are all 33. Anderson is 38. Dhoni played till 39. Azhar Ali is 35, Hafeez 39. Misbah played till he was 40. Imran Tahir is still playing at 40. Gayle played till 40. Faf played till 36.
The point I'm making is that if a player is playing well and maintaining his fitness, then there is no reason why can't play in to his late 30's.
Zim do not have an abundance of roaring talent flowing through the system and staking claims as international first team quality. We are not at liberty to throw away the good quality we have. If players like Elton and Maruma are getting chances at 34 and 32 and are performing miserably, then why throw away the best performer we have. I agree that his age is a concern, but on form and stats he has been the best batsmen in our domestic competition and in our national side for more than a year.
You need to make a solid case for him to be dropped. So far, you haven't wont me over.
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TapsC2 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:47 am
Can somebody in their mid 30s not play any cricket for half a year and still be ok?
Provided they kept themselves fit ( I would be more concerned about BT in that respect) I would assume the muscle memory of older players to be not inferior to those of youngsters, rather the contrary.
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TapsC2 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:47 am
What is the peak age for a batsman? Craig is the oldest. He will be 38 by the time the next World Cup is played. BT , Raza and Williams will be 37. I guess Pakistan in October will tell us all we need to know. Can somebody in their mid 30s not play any cricket for half a year and still be ok?
BD and ZIm players always have half year breaks. It’s nothing for us. Most of the BD guys have trained on their own through the pandemic.
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